We talk about consent. So why isn't it working?

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Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current podcast.

[chanting] No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace. No justice, no peace. Ban the frats. Ban the frats. Ban the frats.

Those are students protesting at Cornell University. They are angry about the way their school has handled allegations from a female student known only as Jane Doe. She says she was sexually assaulted in 2024 by a group of men at a frat house. The Cornell Seven story has struck a nerve well beyond the United States, and for many Canadians, this case brings to mind the Hockey Canada trial that unfolded in London, Ontario last year, where five former World Junior players were acquitted on charges of sexual assault. That outrage has sparked discussions about how we teach consent and why it feels that that message isn't getting through. Stafford Perry is a program manager at Wise Guys. It's a Calgary-based organization that runs weekly workshops about masculinity, healthy relationships, and consent. Those workshops are done with grade nine boys. And Sarah Pachoko is a sexual assault and abuse crisis counselor at Women in Crisis Algoma in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario. She does sexual assault prevention training with the local Ontario Hockey League team, the Sault Greyhounds, and they both join us now. Good morning to you both.

Good morning.

Good morning. Yeah, good morning.

Sarah, what is your sense as to how men and women are talking perhaps differently about what is unfolding at Cornell?

Yeah. So one of the things that I noticed is women are talking about it a lot more than men are. Uh, we're hearing conversations everywhere. We're hearing conversations at work. Friends are talking about it. Uh, you know, even in our, uh, extracurricular activities, people are having conversations. You know, "Have you been up to date? Have you been keeping track on what's going on?"

Mm.

Uh, it's generated so much conversation, and, um, we find with men, we're not seeing that same level of conversation that we are-

Yeah

... with women.

How-

Men are aware of it. They know what's going on.

Yeah.

They're not having those deep conversations.

What is your reaction to that, Sarah? I mean, how, how does that strike you that, that men, from your perspective, don't seem to be as engaged in this conversation as women?

Yeah, I mean, I think it just confirms the issues that are withstanding about consent and why it's so hard, um, is because men aren't being, uh, as willing to talk about it as women are, and they're not as willing to have those deep conversations.

Hmm. Stafford, you're in the room with grade nine boys every week. What are they saying-

Yea