Podcast Episode

Merging vs Distillation: Can Two Models Become One?

My Weird Prompts

Episode 5975Oct 14, 202625 min

Who’s talking

3 speakers
Herman Poppleberry19 min · 78%
Korn4 min · 17%
Chatterbox1 min · 5%

1Transcript87 turns · 25 min

C
Chatterbox0:00

Sloth, a donkey, and a curious human Send a prompt and see what they're doing One hits a record with a question on his mind Two brothers pick it up, see what they find Korn takes his time, Herman's got the facts Back and forth, they never hold back My weird prompts, come on in, that's where we begin My weird prompts,

K
Korn0:20

glad you're here This episode

HP
Herman Poppleberry0:25

was generated using artificial intelligence. Please verify facts.

K
Korn0:31

So the argument I keep coming back to is whether the cleanup step was ever a separate model at all, or whether we just got lazy and split

HP
Herman Poppleberry0:39

the job in two. That's the framing Daniel sent us, and it's sharper than most of what I see written about this. His example is the ASR pipeline. You've got a speech recognizer that turns audio into raw text, and then a smaller language model that fixes the errors, restores the punctuation, cleans up the formatting. Two models, one job. And the

K
Korn0:59

question underneath it's the good one. If they're doing one task, is there a way to fold both into a single set of weights so the whole thing runs through one inference pass?

HP
Herman Poppleberry1:11

Right. And he's careful to separate the things people lump together under model consolidation. Weight averaging, task arithmetic, lower merging, distillation, multitask learning. He wants to know which of those actually move capability between models, and which of them quietly require the two models to share an architecture or a training history. Then he narrows to the

K
Korn1:31

case I find most interesting. A big foundation model and a small specialist. Can the knowledge of one be poured into the other without just running both in sequence?

HP
Herman Poppleberry1:42

And he asks for real papers and a clear split between what's been demonstrated and what's still a proposal. Then he brings it back to the ASR pair specifically and asks what did it actually take. training the recognizer on the corrector's outputs, a multi-task redesign, or some more direct fusion. So the marketing

K
Korn1:59

word is merging, and the actual word for most of what he's describing is distillation, and the two aren't the

HP
Herman Poppleberry2:06

same thing at all. They're opposites in a way. Merging takes two models that already share a lineage and combines them without training anything new. Distillation takes two models that don't share a lineage and trains a third one to imitate both. Same goal on the box. Completely different engineering. Which means

K
Korn2:26

the vocabulary trap is the first thing to get out of the way, because everything downstream depends on it.

HP
Herman Poppleberry2:32

It does. The dominant survey on this, Yang and co-authors, defines model merging very tightly. You're combining the parameters of several models into one, with no access to the original training data, and no extra inference cost. That's the definition. You get one model, the same size as the ones you started with, running at the same speed. And there's a requirement buried in there that people skip past. Two of them, and they come up in Donato Crisostomi's overview from last year. First, the merged model has the same number of parameters as the endpoints, so merging isn't a way to take a large model and compress it into a small one. It's a way to take two same size models and produce one same size model. No shrinking. Second, no extra

2Episode notes

When a speech recognizer and a correction model do one job, can they be folded into a single set of weights? The answer depends entirely on a distinction most coverage skips: model merging and distillation are not the same operation. Merging combines parameters from models that share a pretrained ancestor — no training, no extra inference cost, same parameter count. Distillation trains a new model to imitate others, and it's the only route that works across different architectures. This episode walks through task arithmetic, weight averaging, re-basin permutations, and LoRA merging to find exactly where each one breaks, then follows the distillation route from FuseLLM to cross-architecture transfers between CNNs, transformers, and Mamba. Along the way: why an elaborate feature-alignment loss made a student model worse than plain output matching, and why you can't average a lesson into a model that never learned it. Key sources: • Model Merging in LLMs, MLLMs, and Beyond survey (Yang et al.) — https://arxiv.org/abs/2408.07666 • Donato Crisostomi, Model Merging — https://crisostomi.github.io/blog/2025/model_merging/ • Uncertainty-Based Gradient Matching (ICLR 2024) — https://arxiv.org/abs/2310.12808 Episode 5975 — myweirdprompts.com/n/5975 (permanent short link: myweirdprompts.com/586126)

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